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COWDYDF
Sept 8, 2015 22:30:16 GMT -5
Post by Viempth on Sept 8, 2015 22:30:16 GMT -5
Sorry I've been gone for a while! Start of school sucks :/ Well, that was along the lines of what I was thinking as well. Hmm... I guess it depends on what kind of tone we want to set for the story. If it's a more lighthearted adventure story, then we could have the light is order and dark is chaos, but if we wanted a more serious/darker story then the roles would be reversed, and the Powers would be much less trustworthy, or at least act as unreliable narrators. As of yet that's mainly how I've been imagining it. I did figure that of course while the Powers each explain their nature, they do so in a way tailored to the species/culture that the Chosen their trying to sway comes from. So more focusing on the fun and freedom! aspect than the meaningless chaos and selfishness part of the whole deal. Personally I don't really think that we need to swap Power names based on tone? Actually, speaking of overall tone, I think we should discuss it. I feel that while we are going to be tackling some serious shit, the story should never get toooo dark? In my opinion super grimdark doom and gloom stories are very un-engaging. I think that we can strike a good balance between having the dark despair-filled moments along with some fun adventures (and humor! humor is very important to prevent despair fatigue in readers!). Also, when plotting stuff out we should keep in mind that overall the theme of the story is hopeful, and it deals in general with the idea of hope vs. despair. So we shouldn't be afraid to get really heavy, but we also shouldn't let that overtake everything else. What do you think? I also thought about it some more, in the contexts of government this time. It seems to me that more open governments, democracy and the like, work on the free flow of information, whereas more command-based, orderly ones obscure information from the general populace to keep them in line. I dunno, just a thought I had. I kind of see what you mean about information sharing and how it relates to controlling people, but I feel like for the total set of all the different things the Powers represent, the other way around kind of works better. I've actually been thinking a lot about the Powers and their names and why I feel that way, and I've kind of realized why I associated the Order/Logic/Selflessness set with the idea of Light. It's because of language! The idea of morality, language, patterns and order, all of it is applying meaning to the uncaring void. Looking at a meaningless universe and carving meaning out of it. For me at least, that makes me think of light- as in information and communication, and therefore language and meaning. On the other hand, the idea of Chaos/Absurdity/Selfishness makes me think more of the primordial void, an emptiness devoid of the subjective meaning that makes it comprehensible and palatable to us. Light illuminates darkness in much the same way that we use constructed meaning to give extra shape and rules and understanding to the universe. idk if I'm explaining it well, but at least for me the associations are pretty strong ones. Of course, for you entirely different sets of associations might be more obvious. Ah, I had the idea that there were only a few G1/G2 pairs, and they would all be important to the story. It's fine by me if there are more of them and some of them jsut aren't important characters in the long run, but it jsut raises the question that, if the Powers don't know about the inherent power of the G2s, or if the G2s didn't have any at all, why out of 7 billion people on earth they would manage to hone in on those few that had been chosen before. While, originally the G!s wish specifically stated that they could guide the next generation of players. There's no chance involved- whoever the G2s were, the G1s would be bound to them. If we go with reincarnation, the reincarnations are Chosen because the main criteria for doing so is conviction and strength of heart, and with most magic reincarnation stuff the essential core of the person remains constant. So that central strength of self and the tendency to Light or Dark would remain, and would still make the reincarnations the primary candidates for Choosing. I like those ideas, the first one reminds me of a Pathfinder Summoner, and I'm defofo getting some Jekyll and Hyde vibes from the other, which is always cool. :P I also like Elizabeth's design. Truth be told, it actually reinforces this one notion I've had for Elizabeth as an atomic bomb allegory or something along those lines, as someone who destroys absolutely and indiscriminately, like the weapon itself, while only having had the best intentions, like those that developed it in the first place. I dunno, that's just something that's been brewing in my head since you first described her. Thanks! Although I didn't really think of any Jekyll/Hyde stuff with her, what do you mean with that? Maybe the atom bomb metaphor works for Elizabeth? idk
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COWDYDF
Sept 21, 2015 14:30:57 GMT -5
Post by Commander Tumbles on Sept 21, 2015 14:30:57 GMT -5
Sorry I've been gone for a while! Start of school sucks :/ S'fine, I'm pretty guilty of that myself. I did figure that of course while the Powers each explain their nature, they do so in a way tailored to the species/culture that the Chosen their trying to sway comes from. So more focusing on the fun and freedom! aspect than the meaningless chaos and selfishness part of the whole deal. Personally I don't really think that we need to swap Power names based on tone? Actually, speaking of overall tone, I think we should discuss it. I feel that while we are going to be tackling some serious shit, the story should never get toooo dark? In my opinion super grimdark doom and gloom stories are very un-engaging. I think that we can strike a good balance between having the dark despair-filled moments along with some fun adventures (and humor! humor is very important to prevent despair fatigue in readers!). Also, when plotting stuff out we should keep in mind that overall the theme of the story is hopeful, and it deals in general with the idea of hope vs. despair. So we shouldn't be afraid to get really heavy, but we also shouldn't let that overtake everything else. What do you think? I agree. For instance, even though most everyone loves PMMM, very few people can rewatch it more than once because the journey is so painful and dark and it has no pauses for humor or any sort of relief. I've mainly been focusing on the darker aspects of the story since, well, that's jsut how I write. I tend to focus on the big issues and events first, which I imagined to be more serious, and then bind them together with the connective tissue that is the journey itself, which I imagine to be more fun and lighthearted. But we're still working on nailing the big issues. Makes sense to me. And yeah, your way is probably better, since it is much simpler than mine. Fair enough. Well, not specifically Jekyll/Hyde as per the original book but more what they've come to represent, in that there are two distinct forces within one body, the default being the scrawny weakling and the other being the beast that resides within. So, more Incredible Hulk, is what I'm trying to say.
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COWDYDF
Sept 21, 2015 20:47:01 GMT -5
Post by Viempth on Sept 21, 2015 20:47:01 GMT -5
I agree. For instance, even though most everyone loves PMMM, very few people can rewatch it more than once because the journey is so painful and dark and it has no pauses for humor or any sort of relief. I've mainly been focusing on the darker aspects of the story since, well, that's jsut how I write. I tend to focus on the big issues and events first, which I imagined to be more serious, and then bind them together with the connective tissue that is the journey itself, which I imagine to be more fun and lighthearted. But we're still working on nailing the big issues. :P It makes sense to focus on the big picture stuff first. I'm really glad we agree on the tone, it really sucks to be working on a story when you're trying to keep it fun and light and the other person tries to go super grimdark, or when you're trying to tell a serious story and they want to write something sillier or lighter. At least in my experience, it is one of the things that can really make collaborating tough. But it sounds like we both want more or less the same general tone/direction, so that's fantastic! Makes sense to me. And yeah, your way is probably better, since it is much simpler than mine. :P Ok! I'm glad it made sense, I wasn't quite sure how personal or universal my symbolism/mythology stuff thoughts were. Alright, plot hole patched. Well, not specifically Jekyll/Hyde as per the original book but more what they've come to represent, in that there are two distinct forces within one body, the default being the scrawny weakling and the other being the beast that resides within. So, more Incredible Hulk, is what I'm trying to say. :P I always did imagine that, while initially unassuming, Elizabeth would be a somewhat terrifying person to be around simply because she is so intense and has such an unbending force of will. She is absolutely certain that her path is the only correct, logical, and moral conclusion to reach and is willing to destroy anything and anyone that tries to stop her. She practically radiates an aura of 'don't fuck with me', and has a special kind of terrifying charisma. Even though doesn't look that intimidating people just get the sense that she can and will take them down without a second thought. By the way, a while ago we discussed 'beast forms' for the chosen, and I'm not sure if those are still on the table but if they are I think I've come up with a really good one for Elizabeth: A generic, androgynous human silhouette, with no identifying features or hair, in a neutral grey color (exactly halfway between black and white). The form would not interact with lighting in any way, neither being cast in shadow or lit up no matter what. This would also make it appear almost two-dimensional, since there would be no shading on it (It would be normally three-dimensional, the lack of shadows/highlights would just make it hard to tell). What do you think? What do you like/dislike about the idea?
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COWDYDF
Sept 22, 2015 0:02:20 GMT -5
Post by Commander Tumbles on Sept 22, 2015 0:02:20 GMT -5
It makes sense to focus on the big picture stuff first. I'm really glad we agree on the tone, it really sucks to be working on a story when you're trying to keep it fun and light and the other person tries to go super grimdark, or when you're trying to tell a serious story and they want to write something sillier or lighter. At least in my experience, it is one of the things that can really make collaborating tough. But it sounds like we both want more or less the same general tone/direction, so that's fantastic Sweet deal. I always did imagine that, while initially unassuming, Elizabeth would be a somewhat terrifying person to be around simply because she is so intense and has such an unbending force of will. She is absolutely certain that her path is the only correct, logical, and moral conclusion to reach and is willing to destroy anything and anyone that tries to stop her. She practically radiates an aura of 'don't fuck with me', and has a special kind of terrifying charisma. Even though doesn't look that intimidating people just get the sense that she can and will take them down without a second thought. By the way, a while ago we discussed 'beast forms' for the chosen, and I'm not sure if those are still on the table but if they are I think I've come up with a really good one for Elizabeth: A generic, androgynous human silhouette, with no identifying features or hair, in a neutral grey color (exactly halfway between black and white). The form would not interact with lighting in any way, neither being cast in shadow or lit up no matter what. This would also make it appear almost two-dimensional, since there would be no shading on it (It would be normally three-dimensional, the lack of shadows/highlights would just make it hard to tell). What do you think? What do you like/dislike about the idea? Oh, I meant Jekyll/Hyde for the nameless guy with power-up magic, not Elizabeth. But I do like the idea of it, as she comes across as being a more mysterious, ominous force without necessarily giving away her whole identity. Also, though possibly unintentional, the silhouette thing only reinforces my idea of her being like unto the atomic bomb, for reasons that directly relate to a similar, horrifying phenomenon that occurs when one is detonated... But yeah, now that that long wall of text is near to an end, we should compile a list of what we've decided on and what we still need to work on.
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COWDYDF
Sept 26, 2015 18:32:13 GMT -5
Post by Viempth on Sept 26, 2015 18:32:13 GMT -5
Oh, I meant Jekyll/Hyde for the nameless guy with power-up magic, not Elizabeth. :P Oh! That makes a bit more sense, I guess. Personally I think they have different vibe, though. They're always in the background and looked down on, and then POOF!- magical makeover into flawless, athletic, intelligent, charismatic star. This is coupled with suddenly being cosmically important, what with being tasked by a greater Power to save the world and all that! Being Chosen is basically the best thing to ever happen to them. But will importance and attention really make them as happy as they thought it would? But I do like the idea of it, as she comes across as being a more mysterious, ominous force without necessarily giving away her whole identity. Also, though possibly unintentional, the silhouette thing only reinforces my idea of her being like unto the atomic bomb, for reasons that directly relate to a similar, horrifying phenomenon that occurs when one is detonated... I'm glad you like it! It was meant to make her mysterious and ominous so I'm glad that that idea came through. But yeah, now that that long wall of text is near to an end, we should compile a list of what we've decided on and what we still need to work on. Definitely! I've actually been trying to think about this, it's part of why my response is so late. Things we've decided on:The major motif/theme of the story is the conflict between Hope and Despair. All magical power comes from hope and ideals. The main object of the story is to get to the Worldcore, a massive source of wish energy that has slowly coalesced from the collective humanity living on Earth. The Worldcore is coveted by the two Powers: Light (selflessness, order, and reason) and Dark (individuality, chaos, and absurdity). These Powers are the two underlying, driving forces behind reality and have fought over countless Worldcores on countless planets throughout time and space. However, only a mortal of the people from which the Worldcore originated can claim it. Therefore, each Power selects a few people (the same number for each power) from the worldwide population to become the Chosen. These people have their own magical abilities unlocked and are tasked with seeking out the Worldcore for that Power to use. Chosen are picked based on two main criteria: How likely they are to agree with and aid that Power and its ideals, and how steadfast their will and conviction in their wishes and ideals is (this also determines the potency of a person's magic). Each Chosen is visited by an Agent (semi-sentient manifestation of the magic) of each Power, who debriefs them on their mission and the ideals of that Power (while trash=talking the other Power) and unlocks their magic. To claim the Worldcore, each Chosen must journey through mystical rifts that lead into the different layers of the 'Onion'- a labyrinth of other planes created by excess magic leaking out of the Worldcore and twisting dimensions around it. Also emerged from the Worldcore are many 'Shards' of its magic which have 'bubbled up' through the planes of reality. While far lesser than the full might of the Worldcore, the Shards are still potent bits of pure hope that can greatly boost magical ability. However, it should be noted the the Worldcore doesn't HAVE to be used for the sake of either Power (although their agents are careful to never mention that this is the case). It's magical energy could be used to grant the wishes of any consciousness who grabs it, and has the will to use it. Chosen will often compete, rather than cooperate; either to hinder the efforts of the other Power's Chosen, or because they seek the Worldcore for themselves. Thousands of years ago, this Great Battle was started on Earth. One of the Chosen of Light, Elizabeth, determined that the only way to truly end suffering was to eliminate reality itself. Her magical power was so great, and her goal so against both Light and Dark, that Chosen from both sides (as well as some other independents) were forced to work together to stop her. In the end, they did so by claiming and using the Worldcore to create the Great Seal. This mighty spell sealed away all magic and all remnants of the Powers, preventing them from interfering with the planet. It also contained the consciousnesses of the Chosen. In the event that the Seal broke, they could live on in the minds of the next generation of Chosen, to guide them through the Battle to come. However, Elizabeth was also included in this effect- the wish had been 'tainted' by another Chosen, Alexander, who refused to believe that she deserved destruction and could not be saved. Over time, humanity recovered from the Battle. The species moved on, and over time magic, Chosen, Powers, and all the events they caused faded to myth and legend. Thousands of years later, the setting is similar to modern-day Earth, with minor alterations (including some new shared mythology). Near the start of the story, the Seal breaks, the Powers pick a new set of Chosen, and the first group of Chosen (G1) are successfully bonded to the minds of the second set of Chosen (G2). The G1s appear are visible and audible to the g2s and each other just as though they were real, but are intangible and cannot be detected at all by ordinary mortals. Over the millennia they spent sealed away the G1s have lost many pieces of their memories. G1s can still use weaker forms of all the powers they used to have. It is only when the G1 and their G2 host fully synchronize and unite their minds that the G1 can fully affect reality again, uniting their and the G2s magic into one (this is probably called 'Spirit Fusion' or something similarly cheesy). The ending of the story will come from many of the Chosen turing their backs on the Powers (as they have realized that neither on is truly good) and in some way using the Worldcore to benefit humanity as a whole. Things we need to decide on:The actual main plot events, obviously. How many Chosen there are. How many WDYD forum members are referenced/represented by various G1s? What Elizabeth's story role will be. Who the various Chosen are: what they are like, what they look like, what powers they get, ect. Probably a bunch of other stuff too! Alright, i think that hits just about everything! I tried to kind of put as much of it as I could in an order that makes sense?
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COWDYDF
Oct 10, 2015 22:34:12 GMT -5
Post by Commander Tumbles on Oct 10, 2015 22:34:12 GMT -5
That all looks good to me. Among the things we need to decide on: I still keep coming back to 16 different characters (32 when adding their guides), and that's mainly reinforced by the other idea of having 16 planes that represent the various types of desires. I also had an idea to make each character represent a different archetype specifically, but there are only 12 of those, so that idea's out with 16 characters. I also think that either most or all of the guides should be based off of WDYDers. Although, because Elizabeth is who she is, I have trouble matching her to one, so the latter probably won't happen, though we could probably make the former work
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COWDYDF
Oct 16, 2015 23:39:34 GMT -5
Post by Viempth on Oct 16, 2015 23:39:34 GMT -5
I think 32 might be a bit too many, personally. I agree that as many G1s as possible ought to be based off of WDYDers, and I think that before trying to decide on a cast size we should figure out how many of us are willing to have our avatars written in as G1s.
Speaking of which, I've been doing some work on my own G1 equivalent. I didn't really have much to work off of except cyan+whales+fire, but I think I fashioned an acceptable concept from that? His concept is basically the opposition to disease, decay, and corruption. Role-wise he'd basically be the white mage/paladin equivalent, but with a focus on purification and growth rather than just straight healing. He'd probably be a Light Chosen. Personality-wise, he's suuuuper chill, and plays sort of a peacekeeper role with everyone trying to get them to be chill, too. Although he can sometimes seem unconcerned with reality and rather less worried and serious about things than he ought to be, this projected attitude stems from his deep appreciation for and fear of mortality and death. He knows everything is going to wither away eventually, and he's just trying to make what time everybody has as painless as possible. Because of this he has a tendency to repress, rather than deal with, his own emotional baggage- after all, emotions like anger and grief aren't helping anyone and just make life harder. Deep-set into the core of his being is an underlying fear of disease and age, of his body and mind failing him and diminishing from what they once were. His granted magic allows him to forestall and reverse corruption and decay in all forms, and mostly takes the shape of purifying cyan flames that burn away imperfection. While they can be applied offensively in some cases, he mostly uses his powers for healing/buffing himself and others, removing any effects that compromise or diminish them. As for his beast form, probably just an anthropomorphic whale? Probably with wings/halo of some kind, using angel symbolism to reinforce the idea of holiness or purity, as well as the connection to fire. His other power is puns. To engage in conversation with him is to experience a never-ending barrage of terrible nautical puns. This is arguably his greatest offensive technique.
I'll probably upload some sketches tomorrow. What do you think so far? Like I said, I didn't have much to work with, so I just kind of made up a character that I thought would be fun to write
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COWDYDF
Oct 27, 2015 13:50:06 GMT -5
Post by Commander Tumbles on Oct 27, 2015 13:50:06 GMT -5
Sounds cool to me. But yeah, I'm on the fence about the number. Because, while on the one hand, it may be a bit too many for people to follow along with, on the other hand, 16 is just a satisfyingly round number. Also, there are 16 different Myers-Briggs personalities, if we wanted to approach it from that angle. But at that point, a good deal of them would probably be minor or simple recurring characters. 12 could also work, since there are 12 common character archetypes as well that we could fulfill. But that's jsut a thought.
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COWDYDF
Dec 19, 2015 17:15:49 GMT -5
Post by Commander Tumbles on Dec 19, 2015 17:15:49 GMT -5
So, been brewing another character idea, this one around CMP. So, a while back I mentioned I thought a guy that was based on "progress" would be cool, but couldn't quite figure out a way to make it entirely satisfying, because I couldn't really think os a way to make a powerset representative of the idea while still being believable. The character himself wishes to, "make the world better." He doesn't really know how to go about doing that. He lost an arm as a child, but, thanks to the miracles of modern medicine, he got a prosthetic, which inspired him to go into STEM research, probably either robotics or medicine. He knows he wants to make the world a better place, but what with research grant denials, and all the competition and profiteering of the industry he works in, he's beginning to lose hope. That's when his Angel comes calling, and makes the deal. So, I had to think, what kind of power would suit a wish like that? Well, what if his power was that he could "upgrade" things? That is, what if he mentally, metaphysically, broke things down to their basic parts, changed an aspect or two, and put them back together? And the changes wouldn't have to necessarily obey physics. Like, for instance, he takes apart a bag, stretches out the inside, then puts it back together, essentially creating a TARDIS bag or Bag of Holding or something like that. Or maybe it could be more an equivalent exchange type deal, where he applies certain aspects of one object to another as a way to avoid it being completely broken. I dunno, something along those lines.
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COWDYDF
Dec 20, 2015 13:28:14 GMT -5
Post by Viempth on Dec 20, 2015 13:28:14 GMT -5
So, been brewing another character idea, this one around CMP. So, a while back I mentioned I thought a guy that was based on "progress" would be cool, but couldn't quite figure out a way to make it entirely satisfying, because I couldn't really think os a way to make a powerset representative of the idea while still being believable. The character himself wishes to, "make the world better." He doesn't really know how to go about doing that. He lost an arm as a child, but, thanks to the miracles of modern medicine, he got a prosthetic, which inspired him to go into STEM research, probably either robotics or medicine. He knows he wants to make the world a better place, but what with research grant denials, and all the competition and profiteering of the industry he works in, he's beginning to lose hope. That's when his Angel comes calling, and makes the deal. So, I had to think, what kind of power would suit a wish like that? Well, what if his power was that he could "upgrade" things? That is, what if he mentally, metaphysically, broke things down to their basic parts, changed an aspect or two, and put them back together? And the changes wouldn't have to necessarily obey physics. Like, for instance, he takes apart a bag, stretches out the inside, then puts it back together, essentially creating a TARDIS bag or Bag of Holding or something like that. Or maybe it could be more an equivalent exchange type deal, where he applies certain aspects of one object to another as a way to avoid it being completely broken. I dunno, something along those lines. That sounds really cool, actually! I think that could be a really interesting powerset, with some tweaking to really define and balance it. I'm not sure how that backstory meshes with the previously established X000 BCE time period for G1, though.
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